The Vancouver Taser Affair
November 15, 2007 by Pieter Dorsman
Remember my original post Beware Air Travel? Here is one of the comments it yielded:
It seems odd to criticize the ‘incompetence’ of the security personnel without mentioning the behavior of the passenger. He (and the other woman who recently died under similar circumstances) may be innocent in terms of terrorist risk, but that’s not the point: they’re being subdued because they’re posing a direct threat to the passengers and staff in the terminal with their irrational and violent behavior.
It is was a fair comment at the time, but as some suspected the ‘threat’ wasn’t all that urgent. We can now test this assumption against the video footage that Canadian authorities released yesterday. If you can stomach watching this go ahead, but do not think you will find any material that would support the continued use of Tasers by security personnel.
Once more: we are increasingly equipping our law enforcement apparatus (be it in the US or Canada) with tools and training that appear to be overly focused on ‘conflict ending’ rather than ‘conflict resolution’. That trend is unacceptable for any free society and needs to be reversed.
Pieter, I would concur with you about the training, but I continue to strenuously disagree with you about the Tasers themselves. I pointed out several studies, in comments to your last thread, showing that they do NOT pose a serious risk of harm. “Conflict ending” by tackling the guy or otherwise physically subduing him runs quite possibly an even greater risk of harm than Tasing him. Go look at the studies.
This is the perfect picture of what our very own police are doing nowadays. These kids in uniform are using their tasers as toys… and it’s absolutely disgusting.
I would love to strangle each one of those officers to death on film and release it to the public.
Oh, there’s a lovely sentiment for you. How so very understanding of you.
Let me get this straight. This character is raising a ruckus so, in your mind, it was unreasonable for the police to use tasers to end the conflict (I do not share that view).
But it’s perfectly all right to strangle each of them and then release your snuff film.
What wonderful self-righteousness. It must feel great to be you.
…………………
Might the police be more trigger-happy with tasers than with an actual gun because tasers are considered safe and not deadly? I wish it had been Mr. Spock’s touch on the shoulder-neck area that they had instead of tasers.
Look… the man was unarmed… in a room alone… and backed up and put his hands up the second the cops walked in the room. They made to attempt to even assess the situation. They just walked in… the guy put his hands up… and the tased him. Not only that… after he went unconscious… they made no attempt to revive him. All cops know CPR. They also didn’t bother to alert airport paramedics who could have been on the scene within 2 minutes. They did NOTHING for 13 minutes! When the ambulance and EMS arrived 13 minute after the fact… he was dead. And you think no one did anything wrong? Those cops should all go to jail. Period.
Um, Guy, who said they didn’t think the cops did anything wrong?
Quick take: The officers looked awful quick on the taser trigger to me, but we can’t really see all that was happening. His hands were not in sight when the first hits came, his back was to the camera, and the intervening counter was at least to elbow height. AND he was most assuredly a textbook display of “psychomotor agitation.” To an experienced LEO, this guy’s signals radiated DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!
If, for example, those out-of-sight hands went inside his jacket or into his waistband, it would take a VERY steady (and maybe terminally stupid) officer to not reflexively tase him after observing his previous behavior and physical signs. Yeah, he’s in a secured area and thus probably unarmed, but those kind of moves provoke a hard-wired LEO reflex. Officers that lack that hard-wired reflex cash in their life insurance earlier and oftener than those that have it.
After the scrum starts it’s tougher to assess, but the subsequent extra taser pops also seemed quick on the trigger and excessive to me. But they did call for transport and medical as soon as he was subdued. It was pretty darn slow getting there.
The problem with people displaying psychomotor agitation like that is they have a strongly increased incidence of dying under restraint no matter how they’re subdued, or how they’re restrained. They’re also delusional and irrational and unpredictable, and can go on for hours in that state, complete to hysterical strength. You’re not very likely to be able to calm them down, and if you think you’ve calmed them down, you’re usually dead wrong and will find that out the hard way when you try to get the cuffs on.
Still looks to me like they jumped the gun. But that’s separate from the other issues.
1) Why was Mr Dziekanski held by the airport staff [customs/security?] for so many hours?.
2)How were they able to communicate with him if he spoke only Polish.
3)Why did they release him? Was he delusional or agitated in their presence? If so why were mental heath workers/security not contacted?
4)How or Why did the airport staff not locate him when his mother required about his whereabouts for the several hours she waited at the terminal?.
5)What is the job description and qualifications for an airport security worker? Why did the security guard keep repeating that the man spoke only Russian?
6)Why didn’t the RCMP give the man more time to settle down before using the taser? Why did they taser him again after he was on the floor writhing in pain?
Without knowing the answers to the questions above, I can only say this. I have worked in two Psychiatric hospitals and a maximum security juvenile corrections center for a combined 15 years, and never was a taser used to subdue any out-of-control patient or adolescent and there were many,and they came in all shapes and sizes. If those 4 or 5 burly officers could not subdue that delusional man without a taser, God help any future innocent citizen/victim.
This is the most abhorant news to come across the media in some time. What about charges of MURDER for those men who used the taser… we cannot call them RCMP because the weapon they use should first be common sence… I watched the video and there was no sence to what took place. Talk about errors… the airport staff is inefficiant.. it is frightening to think they know not how to check a arrival roster from a incoming flight…. The mother was there asking for her son…
We are getting to be a world of who cares
I will not watch the video again it is so terrible.
I am soooo disgusted , words cannot convey my feelings.. But there should be some hard time for every man there under the cover of the RCMP.. NO excuse for this terrible murder.
They could hear a fellow traveller telling them he does not understand english.. He threatened onone.
I am so sad.
O
[...] 16, 2007 by Pieter Dorsman Needless to say, this story is now generating disgust around the world, the intensity of some of the reactions (and comments on [...]
As a police officer from an American city, I find this story disturbing. The suspects actions warranted a call to the RCMP but all the officers would be told is that there is “a male subject creating a disturbace”. At that point the officers would scramble to the scene. Upon arrival on scene they form their own opinion based on the suspects actions and verbiage. Clearly, this man wasn’t aggressive as he had his hands up and he did not understand english. It was the officers duty to estimate the language and try to find a translator or use an online translation service. Often I come across suspects of spanish, asian and african descent and we do not take action until we are threatened physically. Almost as improtant is the fact we must clearly understand the suspect verbally, failing that it is our duty to find translation services. The RCMP, in this case from what is in the video, failed to communicate and use due diligence when they tasered and subdued this man. The suspect did not present threatening behavior nor did he deserve to be tasered. I do not argue against the usage of tasers as they do offer an alternative to using a firearm. However, the taser is a second to last case tool to be used when danger is presented. This man wasn’t even close to being at that point and, at best, the officers could have sat him down handcuffed while awaiting a translator. Furthermore, YVR can be partly blamed for not acting upon a man, or any person, remaining in one area of the airport for 10 hours. In the US we are required to question and remove such a person as they fit the description of a “suspicious person”. I say question and remove in a calm and helpful manner which prevents a panic and ultimately helps the suspect to their destination, wherever that may be. Simply stated, everyone failed this man and while it took almost a dozen people to take his life, it would have taken only one person to save it. In addition, an internal RCMP investigation is nuts, there must be an independent investigation like what Internal Affairs does in the US. My apologies to you sir and your family.
So many factors indicate this incident was handled incorrectly by all authorities in the Vancouver Airport. The only possible just outcome is an independant investigation. Does anyone really think and internal RCMP investigation will be transparent and fair? Not a bloody chance. The officers involved would probably not even be disciplined, let alone fired or as they deserve face criminal charges. It makes one ashamed to be a Canadian.
It seems like authority all over the world can commit crimes with impunity. From President Bush down to violent and unfair cops in the US/Canada and elsewhere, there are people in power who commit crimes which ordinary people would be put in jail for and lose their jobs for. But if you are a police person or a government official, it seems like you have no reason to behave legally if the law does not apply…. we should start having fair trials for police just like we do for criminals and if they have acted well, this will be evident from court evidence and they will be let go…. In a case as tenuous as this it seems like the cops involved should have been relieved from duty pending investigation and trials and if convicted they should do community service and lose their pay as police….
Jerone, we do have that. Police are quite often tried for committing crimes in this country (I can’t speak to Canada, but I suspect the same is true). All of the police who have been involved in the notorious, headline-grabbing confrontations over the past decade or more have been investigated and either prosecuted or sued civilly. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. In almost all cases, their careers are ruined, regardless of how the evidence turns out.
We recognize, however, that we ask police to do a very dangerous job, and to deal regularly with criminals, who frequently lie about the police. Thus, we do tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, until sufficient evidence reveals them to have acted badly.
What a perfect example of police brutality. These four coward cops should all be charged with manslaughter, airport staff responsible should be disciplined. It is an utter disgrace to be a Canadian. I will certainly not be going to the winter Olympics in Vancouver when there are taser trigger happy cowards patrolling the streets.
Just to address Jerone and PatHMV’s point. Unfortunately, PatHMV is not correct about what happens in Canada. I remember one infamous case where the Quebec police stormed into an empty hotel room with guns blazing and killed the man sleeping next door who they hadn’t thought of warning. The detectives involved in the case were later promoted.
Another case in Quebec involved a policeman who shot an unarmed young black man in the police parking lot. The man had been frisked and secured in the police car previously. He convinced people that the gun went off by accident (while he was pointing it at the boy’s head) and was forced to retire but went on to have a radio show in Montreal. Montreal is particularly bad - that same year there was a videotape of a cop kneeing someone in the groin in a store. Nothing happened to him either since the tape didn’t show everything the man might have been doing - a defense being used in this case too.
And these are the cases that we hear about - we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors when there is no video evidence. I do believe that by and large the police here do a very good job. But when they screw up, the blue line forms pronto to protect themselves.
What’s most telling about this incident is the reaction of the RCMP afterwards. They issued statements describing the situation to defend their actions. However, these descriptions were contradicted by a number of independent witnesses to the event.
More disturbing, they confiscated the original video and refused to return or release it. It was only after the public outcry and the threat of legal action that they returned it. The video clearly contradicts some of their version of the events, i.e the victim’s agitation, the victim’s resistence after the first taser, the number of officers to respond, etc.
Try pulling that same stunt in a polish airport and see if you are not shot on the spot.
Canada is suffering bad publicity because of its weak response and overly critical media. Our media is quick to criticize our Police force because they know its what our people want to hear. That same biased viewpoint then quickly spread throughout the international media community and was happily embraced in Poland.
BUT the fact remains, that only in Canada would you be tasered for acting that way in an international airport.
Everywhere else you would be shot.
He wasn’t shot but he died because a frightened cop put his knee on his neck until dead. Same result.
This is the most recent in a trend of Canadian police action, either RCMP or local cops, to taser or open fire on unarmed citizens. The media here (Vancouver) has been fairly sympathetic towards the dillema of the police but even they have become angry.
Boycotting the Vancouver Olympics, or threatening to, may send a message
VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) - A Polish-speaking man who was recently fired from his job at Vancouver International Airport says he was working the night Robert Dziekanski died and wonders why he wasn’t asked to help.
Karol Vrba told the National Post he speaks both Polish and Russian and says he had stepped into the airport operations centre to pick up some papers he needed for his work.
He says calls about a disturbance came in as he was going out the door and only found out about what happened when he came back.
Vrba says he asked why he wasn’t called to see if he could help.
He says he was fired almost a month to the day after the incident and believes it was because he complained he could have helped.
Vrba says he was told he was let go because he was unsuitable for the job.
An airport official wouldn’t comment, citing privacy laws.
I understand that Canada has as it’s Minister of National Security one Stockwell Day, a man that proclaims a Jewish carpenter who purportedly lived some 2000 years ago is in complete and total control of the universe and all it contains. Scary stuff…
Mr Stockwell Day, the Federal Public Safety Minister says he wishes Canadians were as outraged over impaired driving deaths, as they are over the death of a Polish immigrant shot with a Taser by police.
He also believes the universe is 6000 yrs old.
help me