October 23, 2007 by Michael van der Galiën
This photo has caused quite a stir. My question to you is: is not putting your hand on your heart when the US anthem is played a sign of a lack of patriotism?
In the Netherlands we don’t put our hand on our heart, but Americans do. Is purposefully not doing it a sign of rebellion in this regard? If so, what does it mean?
Consider this an open thread.
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In Obama’s case I don’t think of it as a sign of a lack of patriotism in itself. I think of it as a stupid statement he keeps making. The boys trying to work this angle and he’s not doing himslef any favors by doing so.
Hmmm, it’s a little odd, but I agree with jonolan that he’s probably just continuing the gesture he started with the lapel pin thing. I’m fine with his lapel pin decision (and in any case it’s totally insignificant) but think this is probably just going to far along those lines, though questioning his patriotism for it is to diminish the meaning of patriotism. Two thoughts come to mind:
1. Can we please talk about the difference of plans and promises in different candidates, and stop with what they wear, how authentically they laugh and other BS that really means nothing. Geez, we seem to be a nation of children.
2. I’m going to be a child right now and say that while the two women, Hillary and the one behind her, seem normally placed, the other guy (the one that isn’t Obama) seems to be inwardly screaming “look at me! I AM saluting the flag!!!”
LYnx: I think that if he does it on purpose, it’s certainly fair to talk about it. After all, if he’s trying to make a point, isn’t it fair that one argues about it?
I didn’t think the lapel thing was worth air time, but his continuing and escalating this behavior is worth talking about because it’s the sort of poorly though cheap theatrics we don’t need any more of in the President.
Actually, Obama has it correct. One is NOT supposed to place one’s hand over one’s heart during the national anthem. According to the The Code for the National Anthem of the United States Of America [pdf], adopted in 1942 by the National Anthem Committee, the audience is to stand and face the flag “in an attitude of respectful attention.” Outdoors, men are to remove their hats. Only members of the armed services, uniformed law enforcement officers, Boy Scouts, and similar uniformed individuals are expected to salute during the anthem.
This has become confusing in recent times due to poor education in civic protocols over the past several decades. I clearly recall 10 or 15 years ago watching the confusion begin. At a sporting event, you would see half the people placing their hand over their hearts, while the other half, aware of the traditional protocol, would not. Over time, enough folks felt uncomfortable about not placing their hand over their heart while so many others were doing so, that even people who knew better would do so, to avoid looking out of place or being misinterpreted as disrespectful.
One places one’s hand over one’s heart only during the pledge of allegiance. When both were regularly done at school, people learned the difference.
Hmmm…. despite my last comment, further research shows that, in fact, federal law says that one should place one’s hand on one’s heart during the anthem, pursuant to the U.S. Flag Code, 36 USC 171:
Ok, more info. That last cite was to an older version of the law. Currently, the applicable provision is 36 USC 301:
Current rules of etiquette can be found at: http://baucus.senate.gov/assistance/flags/ettiquette.cfm
With the National Anthem playing and the Flag present ALL were technically wrong, but Obama’s behavior seems less respectful.
“I think of it as a stupid statement he keeps making. The boys trying to work this angle and he’s not doing himslef any favors by doing so.”
Why speculate?
Anyway, I thought he was trying to hide his junk but his hands would be too small and his arms too short anyway.
I went there, and feel neither shame nor pride. I just refuse serious speculation on these kind of matters.
I doubt he even thought about it, he probably had a million things running through his head.
But it’s the forgetting that will bother some.
The demand for politically correct speech is reaching ridiculous levels on the Republican side.
No, it is not a sign of disrespect and it’s not a statement on Obama’s part. He’s standing respectfully during the anthem and that’s all that’s required.
We’re Americans. We aren’t required to make shows of our patriotism whether it be wearing a flag pin, saluting or standing at attention.
If he had his hand raised in a “black power” salute you’d have a case.
Isn’t it possible (if not likely) that this is near the beginning or end of the anthem, and while maybe he had been saluting, he brought his hand down before everyone else? Maybe it’s all a matter of bad timing for Obama, or perhaps good timing depending on what the Time photographer and editors wanted us to see. Afterall, this is a far more controversial picture this way than if all present were saluting the flag properly. Of course I could be wrong and
If not doing saluting makes you anti-patriotic, what about the thousands of sports fans at every event who starting yelling, cheering, and screaming when there’s still 30 seconds of the anthem left? They’re not cheering for the anthem or singer, I guarantee that. They’re ready for the song to end and the game to begin. Now that’s patriotism.
“If not doing saluting makes you anti-patriotic, what about the thousands of sports fans at every event who starting yelling, cheering, and screaming when there’s still 30 seconds of the anthem left? They’re not cheering for the anthem or singer, I guarantee that. They’re ready for the song to end and the game to begin. Now that’s patriotism.”
LOL, and in agreement, too. I am getting almost repulsed at all these shows of false patriotism in the last few years: hands over heart, the increased playing of the anthem itself, flags everywhere, etc. Nationalistic rituals and displays of state-worshipping conformity do NOT, in my mnd, consitute “patriotism”.
At the large outdoor weekend market at which I am a vendor during the summer months, our Bush-loyalist manager has taken to flying dozens of flags in the last three years, and playing the national anthem at every morning opening of the market. It’s been interesting to note the increasing number of people (myself included) who refuse to stand for the anthem, despite the PA exhortations to do otherwise. I think many average people are becoming fed-up with being forced to publicly display their “loyalty” and “patriotism” in this manner.
Look, if he wants to stand there cupping his genitals while the national anthem plays, that’s his prerogative, but I never credited Obama with having much respect for the national anthem, the flag, or anything that they ever stood for in the first place, so it’s hard to get outraged about it. He’s just a very mediocre pol who’s enjoying the dwindling seconds of an (at best) premature fifteen minutes of fame.
“but I never credited Obama with having much respect for the national anthem, the flag, or anything that they ever stood for in the first place, so it’s hard to get outraged about it.”
As long as you cansay that ot his face, I think it is great that you are voicing your opinion.
Xel, why wouldn’t I?
No, no, no! You’ve all totally missed the point.
As anyone who read Pat’s research above can easily see, Obama is adopting the traditional posture of respect. That is, he’s being more conservative than all the people who are ranting about him. Good for him!
See, it’s easy when you just look at it right.
I get his point, but it is a novice mistake. There’s already the Osama-Obama confusion, he has the middle name of Hussein, and the rumors still circulate that he was in a madrassa. None of that is a fair way to attack his patriotism, but were he to win the nomination, he’d be handing his opponents an easy issue- unnecessarily. A month ago there were stories about how he was attracting more Republican votes in New Hampshire than McCain. This type of thing is sure to drive them away.
Americans actually used to use the Bellamy salute. Because it was somewhat reminiscent of the Nazi salute, Americans stopped using it during World War II.
I meant that they used to use the Bellamy salute during the pledge of allegiance. I’m not sure if it was ever used during the National Anthem.
Simply standing is pretty typical for many Americans. I’ve always thought it was a tad disrespectful but not really a major faux pas. I’d give Obama a break on this one.
His middle name is Hussain, he is a socialist in Democrat’s clothing. It is not a minor thing, it is a part of his being to be unpatriotic. This is a decision to appeal to that part of the Democratic constituency, and to get the small but strategicly focused Muslim vote.
“His middle name is Hussain, he is a socialist in Democrat’s clothing. It is not a minor thing, it is a part of his being to be unpatriotic. This is a decision to appeal to that part of the Democratic constituency, and to get the small but strategicly focused Muslim vote.”
Either unfunny or insane.