Comments on: Reality Check

By: Wake up America

Wake up America — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:13:33 +0000

Initial Benchmark Assessment Report : Iraq

Either way, as we explained yesterday, the Democratically controlled Congress and Senate will do exactly as they did with the emergency supplemental bill, and pass legislation with some sort of timelines, which the President will veto, again, and whi…

By: Mirror, Mirror » The Moderate Voice

Mirror, Mirror » The Moderate Voice — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:53:06 +0000

[...] P. F. van der Galien has today published a couple of posts calling for a “reality check” on Iraq. Acknowledging that most of the world [...]

By: in2thefray

in2thefray — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:37:13 +0000

I’m not trying to turn back time. I’m just saying that in line with the quote the US made efforts.Quality ? Not so much. Expecting the UN to step up to 10 year old resolutions ? Maybe. Caring if they did ? No. Bush also supposedly offered Blair an out,Tony didn’t take it.

By: mvdg

mvdg — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:06:13 +0000

In2thefrey: we often agree with each other but… you do realize that Bush nly went to the un because Blair wanted it and didn’t really do his best to get a lot of support.

By: in2thefray

in2thefray — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:42:55 +0000

- America did not want international organizations involved when the war started. Now, still, they do not want many countries involved, and if they do, they only want it because Americans are dying and its better for domestic purposes that foreign soldiers die…

Going to the UN and using the standing resolutions was the US asking others to take part.Asking Turkey to allow the 4thID to enter from their country was a way the US tried to involve others. Except for China and Russia no other country on the planet can offer force in the numbers the US can. Russia and China at that would have serious logistical issues. I’m not offering this as US bragging. It’s the reality that the contributions of others amounts to little. So we went,we have a level of responsibility.That’s the truth. Everyone else can sod off though if they don’t like how we leave. The worth of others opinions / support/criticism has long lost its value.

By: Interested

Interested — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:34:29 +0000

So your point is not that you can buy world opinion, it is that you can buy the support (in the short run) of foreign governments?

Right - and in many cases - as studies have shown - governments can steer their publics opinion one way or the other. I'm not saying I agree with what has been done since WW2, but it has been what was done - and the world has been a willing partner in it.

By: mvdg

mvdg — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:30:56 +0000

So your point is not that you can buy world opinion, it is that you can buy the support (in the short run) of foreign governments?

There is a difference you know. Do that for a long time and you will see everywhere what you see today in the Mideast (democracy means anti-Americans taking over).

By: Interested

Interested — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:26:50 +0000

Also - I do not disagree with you in your criticism of Europe, but that’s not the point of this post.

You and I agree about the dangers of pulling out. But the other portion of American image - I think it very much does. Europe has not shown us any different over the past number of decades.

By: Interested

Interested — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:25:13 +0000

Really? Is that true? I don’t think it’s true and especially not in the Mideast.

Mideast - maybe not, but in general yes. Look at the past UN items we’d want passed, at times you’d see more aid going to a country - and we’d get a vote.

By: mvdg

mvdg — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:17:41 +0000

You also need to understand that the world has shown America - time after time after time again, that we can buy world opinion.

Really? Is that true? I don’t think it’s true and especially not in the Mideast.

Also - I do not disagree with you in your criticism of Europe, but that’s not the point of this post.